- The Response - Funny thing about that... I
think the technology is probably sound, that is to say -
I doubt they'll get in any trouble with the law for
representing the product the way they do. In theory, the
devise should work as designed. It may do what its
supposed to but I'll not have one on my Quad. I noticed a
Dyno test of a Banshee with one of the links installed on
it about a year ago. In back to back (Amp link on during
dyno test, Amp link off during dyno test) runs the tests
revealed a 4 HP loss at the peak and a couple of HP
across the rest of the power band. HP is too hard to come
by to be throwing it away with add ons like that one - it
just creates too much friction.
-
- There's so much tension of the chain and the rollers
with that devise. The bearings will wear out in no time.
Especially if you ride in sand or muddy conditions. I'll
save my money for new chain and sprockets. I seem to have
to get new ones about every 7 to 10 days of
riding/racing. Maybe someone else has some specific
information about the kind of riding where the link
improved things.
-
- Rick
-
- When your quad is at moderate
to full acceleration, the increasing chain torque makes
the rear suspension rigid, NOT allowing the shock to do
its job properly. The AMP link prevents this from
happening, allowing the shock to do its job. Its makes a
BIG difference! A swing arm slide WILL NOT help this! My
AMP link on my Banshee is almost 2 years old and never
has had a problem. It has survived some of the most
brutal XC races (12 in all) I've been in. I WONT RACE
WITHOUT IT!
-
- Griff
-
-
-
- Let me start by saying that I
am (or any of my friends or family) not associated with,
or sponsored by AMP in anyway. I've never noticed a HP
loss either riding or by dyno. As far a reliability, I
still have original bearings, granted mine is an older
one made right here in the USA (I don't know how/where
they are made now). One thing I hated (without it) was
hard acceleration in uneven terrain, when the rear
suspension is that rigid you have to fight to handle the
'bucking bronco' effect. With an AMP link installed I got
a 60%-80% reduction in that effect. In my case, it
reduced fatigue associated with 'manhandling' a large
quad and it gave me improved control. These are my
personal experiences, so please don't tell me I'm wrong
8^)
-
- Griff
-
-
-
- I wouldn't think of it. Really I WANTED feed back
from people who use them. I have a great deal of respect
for the inventor of the product. I love it when people
figure things out and it seems to work. Many people seem
to favor the pricey devise.
-
- However, in my application it is not indicated.
Paddle tires stick to sand like snot sticks to a little
kids nose. Wheel spin is not a problem. Though I could
always use a few more inches of suspension travel...
-
- Rick
-
-
-
- Our personal experience with
the Amp Link is limited to a series of Dunes "play rides"
on a buddy's Banshee with the Amp Link installed. This
specific Banshee had a Trinity motor, the one-into two
intake, and the two-into one exhaust. In other words, a
torque monster. And an impressive "test" quad. Remember
here that we're used to a 17 hp Blaster, with no Amp
Link. With the Amp Link, we always knew it was there,
because it howled, i.e.. even with new bearings it made
an awful noise. The Banshee used up chains at an alarming
rate and our friend had no base line to judge that by,
because he put the Amp Link on the Banshee while the
motor was out to Trinity being rebuilt. He had just
purchased the Banshee at that time. Did the Amp Link
cause the chains to wear out sooner?? Dunno. Around the
campfire he did say that he once BROKE an RK chain, and
luckily did not damage the engine case. We thought that
was very odd, us not having enough hp beans with a
Blaster to even consider it, but looking back now, maybe
the Amp Link so over-stressed the 7200# test chain that
it broke. Dunno. As for the dyno tests on hp losses with
the Amp Link vs. without it, the only way to objectively
test that, would be to load and unload the rear swing-
arm suspension WHILE the quad was up on the dyno rollers.
Has anyone ever done that?? Comments??
-
- Flyin' Ryan
-
-
-
- No. But you're right though about the test method. It
would be necessary to test it that way to fully exploit
its effect upon the suspension. However that's a little
tough since if you unload the rear wheels on the dyno,
the tires will spin against the drum causing inaccurate
readings. For me, just knowing that it takes horsepower
to drive the devise is enough to stay away from it.
-
- Isn't it funny how sometimes we wonder what caused a
particular part failure, when we usually know what caused
it? How many times have you heard that someone added more
oil to their gas then asked why their motor seized -
since it had more oil in it. Or how about the guy who
adds a pipe then wonders why he holes a piston, even
though he went up a jet size or two. He knows it couldn't
have been the pipe because he was cruising in the
midrange... The list goes on and on. Einstein, I'm not.
Though I do adhere to the philosophy (or science) that
for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The problem is figuring out what the reaction is.
-
- I'm wondering if the AMP link is a devise that works
better on lower HP applications.
-
- Rick
-
-
-
-
- Geez, let me start by saying
this was a pain in the a$$! I Have the dyno results in a
text file, and I calculated the results for percentages.
I'm sorry I can't post the actual HP and torque numbers
because they are something of a secret. In any case, the
loss in HP@max-RPM, was 0.88% (yes less than 1%), and
there was no loss in torque. HOWEVER, it did change the
peak RPM for torque. With the AMP link on, the rev point
for peak torque was 490 RPM higher than when it was off.
I've been trying to figure the mathematical correlation
between the loss in HP and the change in RPM for peak
torque, but this math can be somewhat difficult (do to
the mechanical physics involved). I ran the dyno test 4
times overall, twice with the AMP on and twice off, even
though the results were nearly identical, I took the
worst results and calculated the percentages from there.
I'll let you guys make your own decisions from
here!
-
- Griff
-
-
-
- I bet it was a pain. I'd be very interested in seeing
the printout on that still. That result is far better
than what I have witnessed. I wonder if there was a huge
difference if the overall power of the engines tested or
if there were other differences which contributed to our
differing results.
-
- After the last time this thread was started I wrote
to the maker of the product (AMP Research) to get their
"pitch." It seems they are still going by a November 1990
article in Dirt Wheels where the "extremely impressed"
staff tested it - and loved it. Though their testing
methods were not scientific, they did like the device and
they were testing it at Pismo Beach (in sand) on a "stone
stock" Banshee.
-
- I am interested in testing one on my TRX in a drag
racing environment to scientifically document its results
because I'm always interested in things which may provide
increased (real) forward motion, especially if they have
no ill side effects. However I have seen the bearings
break, become hard to turn and get noisy real fast when
"under the gun" on high output sand racing quads. That
kind of result turned ME off.
-
- Rick
-
-
-
- A 1990 article!?!? LOL. Geez,
it tells me that they're aware of something, I don't know
what, but definitely something :-). I can see where it
would pretty bad in sand, I actually take mine off when I
go duning (which isn't very often). It has no benefit for
duners that I can see, it was designed to smooth out
rough (i.e hard) terrain. Nice soft sand gives easier
last time I checked (which was the last time I bailed in
the sand, ouch) ;-)
-
- Griff
-
-
-
- We can see a HUGE plus for the
Amp Link in the Dunes. If the thing works as advertised,
and keeps the paddles planted in the sand, THROUGH the
whoops at the bottom of the "Hill" and keeps the front
end down---well, that'd be great. We have watched the
high horsepower hill-shooters drop the hammer at the "go"
and make the first whoop, carry the front into the second
whoop, actually bounce off of the third whoop.. etc. If
you can keep the paddles on the sand and pulling forwards
that's more than half the battle won. The only other
option we see is independent rear suspension, maybe a
5-link... hmmmmm.
-
- Flyin' Ryan
-
-
-
- I like the idea - but not the weight of it.
Independent suspension's been done and it was heavy.
Properly dialing in the shocks and suspension for the
woops is a tremendous advantage. Lower vehicle weight is
another big plus.
-
- In that article they sent the writer(s) used terms
like "The difference? Night and day." and "black and
white" and "from the first crack of the throttle the
Banshee with AMP link feels like you've ported your bike
for tons of low end grunt and hard-hitting midrange boost
combined with a screamer top-end." There was even more of
that than I'm going to list here. It seems that at least
the Dirt Wheels Staff was impressed with it. I wondered
after reading the piece if it had been a little too long
since they had been riding in sand - they seemed way too
thrilled over the part. So much so that I wondered if
they got a kickback for the all gain, no pain add on
article.
-
- Rick
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